tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post1018411329745650118..comments2024-03-09T19:23:22.482-03:00Comments on The RPGPundit: 10th Anniversary Rant: Amber: The 23-dagger Solution to The Swine (or "That Time the Pundit Vampire-LARPed")RPGPundithttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17267330191433119298noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-17509663467495376512015-05-12T18:57:51.089-04:002015-05-12T18:57:51.089-04:0090% of the stuff on the Gods in Lords of Olympus i...90% of the stuff on the Gods in Lords of Olympus is taken right from different parts of Greek Mythology. As you say, it's a rich source. And LoO may be the most complete RPG book on the Greek Gods ever.RPGPundithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267330191433119298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-22525489890504696002015-05-12T17:00:07.920-04:002015-05-12T17:00:07.920-04:00Cool, thanks for the informative answer!Cool, thanks for the informative answer!Doc Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08783244633195233970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-46619564411827187032015-05-12T03:17:08.090-04:002015-05-12T03:17:08.090-04:00Plenty of developers forget that short, one paragr...Plenty of developers forget that short, one paragraph descriptions (along the line of Mike Resnick's introductions to his characters and environment) are enough to give overall idea about whats and hows but not much more.<br /><br />While it's ok for a quick trespassing, players (and player characters) require much more than that to operate freely in new surroundings, decide what their next action is supposed to be, form some long term plans, etc, etc. No matter how creative their Storyteller is, inventing a coherent, plausible and deep reality on the fly is damn hard and here's where detailed (or at least "rich") descriptions are indispensable.<br /><br />Amber RPG? Powerful background. Not only Amber Chronicles, but also plenty of Zelazny's other works fit the reality very well. For example "Jack of Shadows", or "Creatures of Light and Darkness". Books like those two practically beg to be re-created as some shadow worlds of Amber.<br /><br />Similar case with Olympian adventures. Didn't have chance to read LoO so far, so this is purely assumptious (let's hope this is the correct word), but there are tons of material for it in form of original Hellenic mythology. Unless, of course, you steered its world away from traditional stories towards even more fantasy, but even then it's almost 100% possible to recycle originals.<br /><br />This can't be said about plenty of other games - their worlds/realities are too vague, too blurred to be of much value. Such products stand little to no chance to gain much recognition and attract followers for more than a few sessions.<br /><br />Thanks for the attention, Bucyrus out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-30734360751319808032015-05-11T23:20:18.654-04:002015-05-11T23:20:18.654-04:00In every case, you have to describe in careful det...In every case, you have to describe in careful detail what you want to do (that's the Players job, in Amber/LoO). The GM then assesses what you are doing, what the opponent is doing, what pre-conditions exist for both (is either injured? Exhausted?), what ability/attribute they are using based on the type of action they're taking, what their relative rank/class in that attribute/ability might be, whether either is taking advantage of some detail of their environment, or have any other form of help or hindrance in the situation, their relative state of endurance vis-a-vis their level of injury or exhaustion, and finally if there is a significant disparity of stuff/luck between the combatants.<br /><br />He then judges the result of that specific exchange; this might change some factors for the subsequent actions each character takes (for example, if one or both just took a new injury, or shifted/were-shifted to a more advantageous or disadvantageous physical position in the environment, etc), and he goes on from there.<br /><br />In Amber, part of the problem that caused the accusation that "its just comparing ranks and that's it" is that Erick Wujcik put a lot of the guidance for how to run combat in very non game-type form, and often in his examples (which people often skipped over rather than read). You kind of had to deduce how to run things through careful analysis of his writing.<br /><br />In Lords of Olympus, I made a real effort to be less abstract and much more direct about how to run the mechanics of conflict using the rules and why it is definitely NOT either 'highest rank always wins' or 'just GM fiat'.RPGPundithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267330191433119298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-6280278797821047252015-05-11T23:13:46.623-04:002015-05-11T23:13:46.623-04:00Thomas: Glad to hear it!
Bucyrusmines: That's...Thomas: Glad to hear it!<br /><br />Bucyrusmines: That's good advice in general; it's also why in Lords of Olympus I detail a number of important realms and locations.<br /><br />Over the Edge is another favorite game of mine.RPGPundithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267330191433119298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-62654866907899468052015-05-11T15:36:18.659-04:002015-05-11T15:36:18.659-04:00Pardon for the intrusion and absolutely unacceptab...Pardon for the intrusion and absolutely unacceptable English, but the need to answer such a question is more powerful than staying reasonable.<br /><br />One must remember that Amber is a very narrative game. Let's put more emphasis on this fact. Amber is VERY narrative. Descriptions, staying in role, preparing the scene and using whatever is available at the moment are as crucial as character's actions and their outcome.<br /><br />Effectively, Amber is played by people who put plenty of effort into style. Simple "I'll gut this fookah with rusty knife of mine" won't do. You're there to explain how <br /><br />....you suddenly get up on your feet, jump over the table and while in mid air, you're pointing your only weapon - old, rusty knife that surely had seen better days - in the direction of your opponent's guts, trying to stab him like a giant bee.<br /><br />...only to find yourself piercing the air, since the enemy is there no more, he disappeared before your very eyes, courtesy of his high Warfare.<br /><br />...surprised, you're almost off balance, but since you're no beginner (and your Warfare rank proves that), you're landing on your feet and make a wild slash in one of two directions your enemy has to be now...<br /><br />...and so on, and so forth.<br /><br />Even if it's Juggernaut vs Hulk, there's still a stream of descriptions behind their titanic punches and angry roars. It's Inigo Montoya vs the Masked Man and their mastery of swordplay when they fought on high cliff. It's James Bond's or Jackie Chan's control over the surroundings. It's whole history that paved the way for the duel between Musashi Myamoto and Sasaki Kojiro, not those three or four slashes that ended the entire fight<br /><br />It's about descriptions and style, even if you simply sneak and emerge behind the back of some guard, only to pull some fast technique (courtesy of Krav Maga like combat) resulting in his instant knock-out.<br /><br />You might say "screw it, every fight would be mentally exhausting and there's the risk that it'll take ages to complete". Yes. It's possible, but insane as it might sound, that's why you've chosen to play this game. Because you appreciate the fact, that even simple encounter is never "that simple" and might result in something unexpected if you'' let your guard down.<br /><br />BTW, here's a simple example of combat, written by someone who know both English and Amber far better than I'll ever do:<br /><br />http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/theory/examples/amber_combat.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-8835141093995410262015-05-11T14:47:58.102-04:002015-05-11T14:47:58.102-04:00Add Gargamel as half-insane, cyber augmented shama...Add Gargamel as half-insane, cyber augmented shaman/bounty hunter (along the lines of Lundgren from "Johnny Mnemonic" movie) and you have the perfect recipe for quite an interesting session. :]<br /><br />Both "Nexus: the Infinite city" and "Over the Edge" seem like a good choice of settings for such a story.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-61664502229546470162015-05-11T13:20:18.344-04:002015-05-11T13:20:18.344-04:00Okay, then they describe how and then what resolve...Okay, then they describe how and then what resolves it? Your response is a non-answerDoc Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08783244633195233970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-90556023134800769022015-05-11T13:19:31.235-04:002015-05-11T13:19:31.235-04:00Smurf cyborgs would be awesomeSmurf cyborgs would be awesomeDoc Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08783244633195233970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-22093464391579314512015-05-11T11:08:59.658-04:002015-05-11T11:08:59.658-04:00Word of advice...
Before embarking on a journey i...Word of advice...<br /><br />Before embarking on a journey into the reality of Gossamer and Shadow, make sure to come up equipped with a few realities of your own. As in: something more than merely "uhhh, you know, it's friggin' big Sagrada Familia-like fortress floating in the darkness and it's, ummmm, floating... Also Smurf cyborgs".<br /><br />Underdeveloped and therefore boring worlds are the scourge of multi-reality settings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-91614188991524348772015-05-11T08:44:54.948-04:002015-05-11T08:44:54.948-04:00Thank you. Now I have an excuse to check out both ...Thank you. Now I have an excuse to check out both LoGaS and Lords of Olympus.Kyorouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03039756343930755030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-27745801727809324282015-05-11T08:06:56.638-04:002015-05-11T08:06:56.638-04:00Brand, for sure.Brand, for sure.RPGPundithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267330191433119298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-39423239935977497972015-05-11T06:02:27.961-04:002015-05-11T06:02:27.961-04:00> and quick, kiddies, just from my description,...> and quick, kiddies, just from my description, guess which elder Amberite I was thinking of as the mastermind of that plot?<br /><br />Interesting. MO would suit Brand very well. Yet, Caine seems like a good match too.<br /><br />And the answer is...?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-60642931794702438102015-05-10T23:54:17.131-04:002015-05-10T23:54:17.131-04:00Can't disagree with any of that. Have you loo...Can't disagree with any of that. Have you looked at Lords of Olympus?RPGPundithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267330191433119298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-81820148153826566212015-05-10T23:53:09.118-04:002015-05-10T23:53:09.118-04:00I had pointed out in the G+ thread on this blog en...I had pointed out in the G+ thread on this blog entry, and i don't know if you were the same one who asked there, that I think LoGaS is awesome. But it focuses (very well) on the "multiversal adventure" rather than on what I think is the real central theme of Amber itself: a dysfunctional family of incredibly ruthless powerful people. <br /><br />If what you want is that kind of Machiavellian RP, I think that's where Lords of Olympus wins out. You can't beat the Greek Gods.RPGPundithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267330191433119298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-84661550190708580412015-05-10T23:50:55.685-04:002015-05-10T23:50:55.685-04:00If I was GM, my first question to both would be &q...If I was GM, my first question to both would be "ok, HOW do you do that?" In an Amber game (counting Lords of Olympus) you need to be more descriptive.RPGPundithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267330191433119298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-90179805334568072212015-05-10T18:09:05.393-04:002015-05-10T18:09:05.393-04:00I know you didn't ask me, but LoGaS is basical...I know you didn't ask me, but LoGaS is basically the same game without Zelazny's setting. Its nice but doesn't have the same sparkle (for me) and not *quite* the same level of scheming and inter-party paranoia... but if you've never read the Amber books it'll probably seem much better. But if you're an Amber fan, it'll always be the poor cousin.<br /><br />Personally if I was taking a system like that and adding a new setting, I'd want to go all mythological and do scheming gods.... Hmmm, maybe something Greek? ;-) Dan Voycehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03800819738941911145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-78633345602084291872015-05-10T18:05:50.255-04:002015-05-10T18:05:50.255-04:00I had exactly the same experience with Vampire (bo...I had exactly the same experience with Vampire (both TT and LARP) back in the day with the White Wolfers. Amber is great training for your intrigue and persuasion muscles - at the table or IRL ;-)<br /><br />Amber is a truly great game and for me it's Erick Wujcik's magnum opus (Zelazny's too for that matter). Because of the competitive play and the fact there's no certainty to anything and no dice to take you out of your character's head, my group hasn't found anything in 20 years of gaming that can match it for invoking fear, worry, paranoia, passion and tension in players. I can't recommend it enough. Plus it has the best GM's section I've every read, which applies to just about every political/intrigue game - not just Amber itself. Dan Voycehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03800819738941911145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-46472809190455949482015-05-10T17:27:44.100-04:002015-05-10T17:27:44.100-04:00So what happens when player A says "I beat th...So what happens when player A says "I beat the shit out of character B" and player B says "No, I stab character A in the chest."Doc Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08783244633195233970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-34380981947794078902015-05-10T14:33:26.220-04:002015-05-10T14:33:26.220-04:00I'd be interested in reading your opinion on L...I'd be interested in reading your opinion on Lords of Gossamer & Shadow and how you think it compares to the original Amber game.Kyorouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03039756343930755030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-3541535114262214962015-05-10T14:04:44.370-04:002015-05-10T14:04:44.370-04:00Through actual ROLE play. The more descriptive and...Through actual ROLE play. The more descriptive and detailed you are, the better you do. Attribute Rank also plays a part in this; though can be subverted through decent ROLE play. Basically, the less dependent you are on random outcomes, the better your chances at Amber/LoO.Reyaht Grailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12711648273544949743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-51491810306874710772015-05-10T13:35:59.215-04:002015-05-10T13:35:59.215-04:00How are things resolves sans dice?How are things resolves sans dice?Doc Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08783244633195233970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-76592210858489452842015-05-10T12:49:04.522-04:002015-05-10T12:49:04.522-04:00In brief, the point of the game is that the PCs ar...In brief, the point of the game is that the PCs are all members of a large dysfunctional family of immortal demigods, who have centuries-old issues with each other (not to mention father-issues) and who fight for position, petty vendettas, and sometimes true power over the throne of the very multiverse.<br /><br />Just like the greek gods do in Lords of Olympus.RPGPundithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267330191433119298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-68888569860882027592015-05-10T10:24:33.912-04:002015-05-10T10:24:33.912-04:00So you keep talking about Amber but I still have n...So you keep talking about Amber but I still have no idea what it's about or what the point of the game is. And don't direct me to the novels 'cause I'm not gonna read 'em just to see what a game is about. Doc Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08783244633195233970noreply@blogger.com