tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post2912529273922256283..comments2024-03-09T19:23:22.482-03:00Comments on The RPGPundit: Know Your Swine Day; Also, Aleena Isn't Kyle Rayner's Girlfriend, She's Roy FokkerRPGPundithttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17267330191433119298noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-2727386385497228322015-01-08T00:59:23.571-03:002015-01-08T00:59:23.571-03:00I honestly have never quite been able to figure ou...I honestly have never quite been able to figure out WHAT Fred takes himself to be apologizing for in that message, but one thing he does NOT seem to be doing there is acknowledging that the claims in the FF article are false and hurtful; certainly there's no straightforward and forthright statement to that effect. It's not clear to me that he's taking back his endorsement of the article, and if he is it's for the wrong reasons.Jeff Heikkinenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13856981023882223505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-84783691510909896672015-01-07T20:36:45.294-03:002015-01-07T20:36:45.294-03:00They were behind trying to get me and Zak blacklis...They were behind trying to get me and Zak blacklisted.RPGPundithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267330191433119298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-47904613417853206772015-01-07T15:23:05.012-03:002015-01-07T15:23:05.012-03:00He didn't apologize to me.
And, of course, if...He didn't apologize to me.<br /><br />And, of course, if I owe anyone an apology, you should provide a link to back that up, not be all vague.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-13246425934999252242015-01-07T15:18:48.773-03:002015-01-07T15:18:48.773-03:00"Linking to an article is not harassment.&quo..."Linking to an article is not harassment."<br /><br />It absolutely 100% is harassment, since the article contains false claims and his link contains no statement pointing that out.<br /><br />He is contributing to more people reading false claims. That is, objectively, evil.<br /><br />And the stuff he's "sick to his stomach" about isn't the problem he actually created.<br /><br />You are 100% wrong.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-34059824134742225922015-01-07T10:04:38.146-03:002015-01-07T10:04:38.146-03:00He was giving context for an apology for which you...He was giving context for an apology for which you think you've been owed. <br /><br />Honestly,you owe a brick-ton of apologies to hundreds of people over the internet... so... hypocrite much?<br />Raging Owlbearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10556804177905125874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-66260865795383877162015-01-07T10:00:19.905-03:002015-01-07T10:00:19.905-03:00"... out to destroy me and rule over my hobby..."... out to destroy me and rule over my hobby". <br /><br />Baloney. He might think you're a dick, but to say he's "out to destroy you" is some serious, paranoid BS. Raging Owlbearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10556804177905125874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-58904573135986464542015-01-07T09:57:19.478-03:002015-01-07T09:57:19.478-03:00"I've spent the past week sick to my stom..."I've spent the past week sick to my stomach over this, and again, I am very sorry to have started it — or at the least, supported it — in the first place."<br /><br />You apparently failed to read again.Raging Owlbearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10556804177905125874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-47034849394875429962015-01-07T09:55:27.182-03:002015-01-07T09:55:27.182-03:00Linking to an article is not harassment.
In that ...Linking to an article is not harassment.<br /><br />In that link you posted:<br />"But that doesn't excuse my mistake at all. Being unaware that I was making the mistake doesn't lessen its magnitude either. <br /><br />I've said it before (despite this article claiming to the contrary), and I'll say it again (even if it's thrown back at me as it has been previously): I am very, very sorry that sharing that article caused pain. That wasn't my intention at all, but my intention carries no real value here compared to the pain of those targeted by any hate I ended up supporting as a side-effect."Raging Owlbearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10556804177905125874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-64162686726484839552015-01-07T09:18:04.296-03:002015-01-07T09:18:04.296-03:00One correction to that - GeekyLyndsay (who I wasn&...One correction to that - GeekyLyndsay (who I wasn't previously familiar with, and at least at a quick glance seems less bad than most of the rest BTW) says she hasn't been active at SA in years and is only still a member at all for some discount or other. So it's not accurate to say everyone in the SA section is "VERY active" on that board. (She may not be the only exception, I haven't checked them all, I only know this because of following a link elsewhere to a specific Twitter conversation.)<br /><br />I agree with most of the rest of what the Pundit says here, in particular that I don't read the diagram as implying that anyone other than "Max Realtalk" has said anything that openly racist. (And frankly, I suspect MR is just a non-aligned troll, no more a friend of Hurley et al than of Zak.)Jeff Heikkinenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13856981023882223505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-9061824930309276102015-01-06T20:30:36.455-03:002015-01-06T20:30:36.455-03:00This stuff is just hilarious. A tiny community wit...This stuff is just hilarious. A tiny community within a tiny community (RPGers) even knows who any of these folks are. Much less cares. Yet they act like it's the apocalypse.Doc Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08783244633195233970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-8426765367941987152015-01-06T17:31:53.976-03:002015-01-06T17:31:53.976-03:00"The way I see it, perhaps he made a mistake ..."The way I see it, perhaps he made a mistake in assuming that another person was being truthful and when the mistake was pointed out to him, he pulled his comments."<br /><br />He has to publicly apologize for spreading the false article and also _remove the posts where he links to it_<br /><br />I committed no libel at all.<br /><br />Namecalling alone isn't harassment--the article Fred shared had false accusations (including criminal ones), Fred shared it, left it up, never made a public apology or admitted that was wrong.<br /><br />https://plus.google.com/+FredHicks/posts/SJHZ8Jc5SoW Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-28172851335604441962015-01-06T17:28:15.587-03:002015-01-06T17:28:15.587-03:00Oh well.
Anyway, Fred did re-share the FailForward...Oh well.<br />Anyway, Fred did re-share the FailForward article:<br />https://plus.google.com/+FredHicks/posts/SJHZ8Jc5SoWZak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-66107037005904045532015-01-06T17:27:41.504-03:002015-01-06T17:27:41.504-03:00he reshared Tom Hatfield's article--like every...he reshared Tom Hatfield's article--like everybody else named there.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-25388496460734004212015-01-06T15:08:14.941-03:002015-01-06T15:08:14.941-03:00On an amusing related now, RPG.net (moderated by E...On an amusing related now, RPG.net (moderated by Ettin among others) has just lifted their 'topic ban' on me and Zak explicitly to be able to lie about us being "gamergaters" and attack Zak's graphic. RPGPundithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267330191433119298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-41732151966171937092015-01-06T15:06:05.666-03:002015-01-06T15:06:05.666-03:00I don't think the graphic suggests that Ettin,...I don't think the graphic suggests that Ettin, much less Tracy Hurley or Fred Hicks, have themselves said racist or homophobic things on Something Awful (though for all I know they might have; unlike them, I do not meticulously go back and read everything they posted for the last ten years in the hope of finding some tiny reference in all that to 'take me down'; whereas Ettin at least DEFINITELY did that to me). <br /><br />But what it is saying is that everyone with an arrow connected to SA are VERY active people on a board that is regularly filled to the brim with hundreds of posts a day of things that, had I said even ONE of those tings ever, they would all be demanding that I be thrown out of the industry forever for it. But they not only look the other way when it comes to their own people, but some of them (like Ettin) make use of people who are very blatantly racist and homophobic in their language on SA to go on social justice flaming-attacks against people who have done no such thing. And people like Hicks and Hurley KNOW THIS, and yet continue to support all their Something Awful "allies" while trying to blacklist the guy who put the first trangendered hero on the cover of an RPG; all because the guys who say "ni**ered" on Something Awful still have the right ideology about RPGs, while I am an old-school gamer and opposed to storygaming. So they twist around their fucked-up minds until they can feel like I'm the "problem" in the industry while Ettin, who lies, cheats, and encourages homophobes and sexists on a regular basis to go harass others, is a hero to "the cause".<br /><br />So seriously, Marty, FUCK FRED HICKS. Hicks is a piece of shit, because he's a pseudo-intellectual fucktard out to destroy me and rule over my hobby, and willing to ally with the scum of the earth to do it. You can bet I for my part will not stop making a point of letting everyone know it. RPGPundithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267330191433119298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-45778927720702800972015-01-06T11:21:03.024-03:002015-01-06T11:21:03.024-03:00I noticed that Ryan Macklin (of Paizo) is listed t...I noticed that Ryan Macklin (of Paizo) is listed there, but I'm not sure why. Can someone expound on that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-38281583897305274972015-01-06T10:02:30.924-03:002015-01-06T10:02:30.924-03:00The diagram did exactly what you were just saying....The diagram did exactly what you were just saying.<br /><br />His first version said "these people are harassing Mandy" or words to that effect. Only when I pointed out that it was disingenuous did he change the verbiage on the graphic.<br /><br />And he didn't retract the original statement or apologize for falsely accusing. So, basically he did the exact same thing as Fred, apparently.<br /><br />But the graphic still has the problem that it makes it appear that racist comments and other nasty things being said are associated with all of the people on the graphic, not just a few at the top. <br /><br />It's misrepresentation of the facts. Raging Owlbearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10556804177905125874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-11381706865193573922015-01-06T05:10:53.889-03:002015-01-06T05:10:53.889-03:00I don't know of anyone who questions that Zak ...I don't know of anyone who questions that Zak can be abrasive, but I don't see where he's guilty of anything worse than that. I've seen some discussions where I wasn't thrilled with Zak's conduct, but never - not once - a case where I thought he behaved significantly worse than the people he was arguing against.<br /><br />He has not, for example, accused anyone of making transphobic or misogynistic statements without pretty solid proof that they have in fact done so. He hasn't accused anyone of making threats against him or anyone else without a screenshot or other solid evidence of them doing so. On the rare occasions when something he's accused people of is disproven, he admits it rather than moving the goalposts. When he sees someone being falsely accused, he defends them even if it's someone he doesn't particularly like; he does not jump on the bandwagon, ESPECIALLY when he knows or has reason to think the accusations have already been disproven.<br /><br />All the people mentioned in that diagram, including your man Fred Hicks, have done at least one of these things.Jeff Heikkinenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13856981023882223505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-86728825087335389982015-01-06T04:52:47.051-03:002015-01-06T04:52:47.051-03:00He's referring at least partially to the recen...He's referring at least partially to the recent removal, at least partly at Evil Hat's behest, of Desborough's latest product from Drive Thru et al. And I happen to agree that that's a dangerous precedent and that the Pundit's description of it, while overwrought as usual, is at least defensible.Jeff Heikkinenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13856981023882223505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-35915322101138200202015-01-06T03:43:33.889-03:002015-01-06T03:43:33.889-03:00OMG, Pundit. Give it a rest.
The whole gatekeepe...OMG, Pundit. Give it a rest. <br /><br />The whole gatekeeper line is baloney. He's just a guy trying to make a living by writing and playing games. And guess what? He plays D&D too. Not just FATE. He plays a whole assortment of stuff. <br /><br />He's not "dangerous to the hobby". Your personal over-zealous beef with story games is not relevant to the harassment discussion.<br />Raging Owlbearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10556804177905125874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-64382072058004313382015-01-06T03:33:34.750-03:002015-01-06T03:33:34.750-03:00That's fine. You can believe Bob should apolog...That's fine. You can believe Bob should apologize... but you should not post<br /><br />"Bob is harassing me." constantly and all over the place when it's not true.<br /><br />Zak probably owes people a few hundred apologies because of how much of a jerk he is to people all over the internet all of the time every day. I think the balance is tipped in his favor a bit.<br /><br />You can't have it both ways.Raging Owlbearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10556804177905125874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-21840600918552146512015-01-06T03:06:28.057-03:002015-01-06T03:06:28.057-03:00My problem with your hypothetical Bob (and my prob...My problem with your hypothetical Bob (and my problem, or one of my problems, with some of the ACTUAL people involved here as well) lies precisely in removing his comments and expecting that to fix everything.<br /><br />If he's said something he later learned is false, the thing to do is own it and post a correction and, depending what exactly it was, possibly apologize for it. (Like, if it was about some mathematical concept, he probably doesn't owe anyone an apology, but if it was that someone had made transphobic statements, then he damn well does.)<br /><br />Likewise, if Bob's friend Tammy and her husband coincidentally also named Bob tweet something and a day later realize that by doing so they did a thing they claim to be against, they shouldn't just erase it and pretend it didn't happen, they should OWN IT AND APOLOGIZE.<br /><br />Anything else is dishonest, is hard to take seriously as an attempt to fix any problems that were caused, and runs the risk of effectively being gaslighting even if that wasn't the intent. Changing one's mind is a perfectly valid and honorable thing, but hiding the evidence that you ever thought anything different and being all "we have always been at war with Eurasia" is not.Jeff Heikkinenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13856981023882223505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-2129912982854864172015-01-06T03:00:20.070-03:002015-01-06T03:00:20.070-03:00Hicks explicitly wants people like himself, Ettin,...Hicks explicitly wants people like himself, Ettin, Hurley, etc. to be the gatekeepers of the hobby. Whether or not he did something to Zak (and I know Zak is meticulous enough about his own personal conflicts to have reasons to include him on his image) that's enough for me to know he's one of the people who are dangerous to this hobby. If it was up to him, a gang of complete assholes would get to decide what everyone else in the hobby is allowed to read, buy, sell, play or say.RPGPundithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267330191433119298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-22184366984702457422015-01-06T02:42:01.801-03:002015-01-06T02:42:01.801-03:00The problem is, by lumping them all together, one ...The problem is, by lumping them all together, one is extending accusations about the actions a very few to a much larger group of people.<br /><br />It is dishonest. It's libelous. It's playing the victim while being the harasser.Raging Owlbearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10556804177905125874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-38967646912197057722015-01-06T02:38:42.760-03:002015-01-06T02:38:42.760-03:00... *now* being harassed.... replace "not&quo...... *now* being harassed.... replace "not".Raging Owlbearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10556804177905125874noreply@blogger.com