tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post6851029401938079481..comments2024-03-09T19:23:22.482-03:00Comments on The RPGPundit: Classic Rant: Roleplaying, "Fairness", and ChessRPGPundithttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17267330191433119298noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-80130667103293718872016-07-12T10:32:10.734-04:002016-07-12T10:32:10.734-04:00RPGPundit, this is spot on and 100% correct and al...RPGPundit, this is spot on and 100% correct and all the whiny naysayers will not change that. What you advocate is true Old School Gaming the way good players play OD&D. <br /><br />In addition, playing OD&D like you advocate above does go a long way to helping the shy person learn to break free of that paralyzing shell they are in. In fact playing OD&D the real Old School Way helps anyone develop and enhance their ability to interact with the real world outside of games. Daithi MacLiamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07164875676148219662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-72747741323725596842016-07-10T16:47:12.204-04:002016-07-10T16:47:12.204-04:00There isn't an "eloquence" stat. Th...There isn't an "eloquence" stat. Things like your WIS, INT, and CHA, or your social class or cultural background should all affect HOW you roleplay socially, but should not replace it.RPGPundithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267330191433119298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-6090293984160593822016-07-10T15:36:36.855-04:002016-07-10T15:36:36.855-04:00Did you read my post below? It goes into a little ...Did you read my post below? It goes into a little more detail about my point. I'm wondering if we're just stating things differently, rather than an actually being in disagreement.L Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728075457955572017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-86585777291002665922016-07-10T10:42:28.322-04:002016-07-10T10:42:28.322-04:00"Of course, that only happens if you don'..."Of course, that only happens if you don't substitute the actual roleplaying parts with a bunch of rolls."<br /><br />And, of course, if the DM and players interpret social mechanics as a replacement for roleplaying, then they're fucking idiots.Bryan Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12183443367798037491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-5106094465071209872016-07-10T02:50:21.703-04:002016-07-10T02:50:21.703-04:00Ah but you are talking about tactics and that is a...Ah but you are talking about tactics and that is a different matter. Rules for social interaction shouldn't protect players from bad decisions (though they might allow them to mitigate their consequences to some extent, same as the combat rules do). It's a game after all...Kyorouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03039756343930755030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-81603310805747956902016-07-10T00:56:52.092-04:002016-07-10T00:56:52.092-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Gleblixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03546938383587063556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-35353773343735362282016-07-09T23:47:07.753-04:002016-07-09T23:47:07.753-04:00And some players "forget" to flank in co...And some players "forget" to flank in combat, or prepare the right spell, or say they're searching for traps. Should they roll in those cases also? "Roll for INT to see if you make all the right choices." What's the point of roleplaying at that point? And you don't fix failure to roleplay with a rule mechanic.L Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728075457955572017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-65707978644512217172016-07-09T23:42:05.184-04:002016-07-09T23:42:05.184-04:00Despite that phrase, he gave an argument, rather t...Despite that phrase, he gave an argument, rather than mention something irrelevant to the point. Ahem.L Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728075457955572017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-552307817796103252016-07-09T20:38:46.704-04:002016-07-09T20:38:46.704-04:00Pundit takes his gonzo wild west robot dinosaur du...Pundit takes his gonzo wild west robot dinosaur dungeons VERY SERIOUSLY. Doc Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08783244633195233970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-56604908475590639072016-07-09T18:15:39.392-04:002016-07-09T18:15:39.392-04:00This article used the phrase "serious role pl...This article used the phrase "serious role play" without any obvious sense of irony, therefore I consider it a fail Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12186800636699877226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-26039607879846102052016-07-09T18:15:29.646-04:002016-07-09T18:15:29.646-04:00This article used the phrase "serious role pl...This article used the phrase "serious role play" without any obvious sense of irony, therefore I consider it a fail Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12186800636699877226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-83348589304499303272016-07-09T16:51:01.701-04:002016-07-09T16:51:01.701-04:00Well, I kinda agree with you but some players ofte...Well, I kinda agree with you but some players often 'forget' to roleplay their character's weaknesses and, in that case the CHA stat is useful. Nice speech, Urghh, now roll for CHA.<br /><br />Now, that's not really the core of the issue because, imo, the supporters of the social combat mechanic often rely on rules mainly to prevent conflict between the players and the DM and among the players. Uncomfortable situations must be avoided at all costs.Kyorouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03039756343930755030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-8751799344946988922016-07-09T12:41:03.543-04:002016-07-09T12:41:03.543-04:00I agree that social mechanics are not needed. Two ...I agree that social mechanics are not needed. Two further points, I think, need to be made.<br /><br />First, while the player rolls to see if his character hits with a swords, there are still a lot of combat-related skills the player needs that no game mechanics give you. How should I maneuver? Where should I concentrate my attacks? Did I miss a flanking opportunity? What spell should I use now?<br /><br />Second, even if you don't have social mechanics in the game, the player still doesn't have to be a smooth-talker to be able to roleplay a smooth-talker. Maybe the player is shy, stumbles over words, laughs nervously, won't make eye-contact, whatever. If he tells the DM that he's trying to be polite, or if he comes up with a convincing lie, then he should have a good chance of success, even if the player can't do a good job of pulling that off in real life. Likewise, no matter how much of a smooth-talker the player is, if he has his character say something rude, or make up an obvious lie, he should have a good chance of failure, no matter how well he may be able to persuade people in real life.<br /><br />So, combat and social interaction in a roleplaying game aren't as different as people often make out. Both involve a bit of knowledge/skill, but neither involves much.L Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728075457955572017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-29448593621184954782016-07-09T12:30:05.726-04:002016-07-09T12:30:05.726-04:00No, that's still just a matter of roleplaying....No, that's still just a matter of roleplaying. If Urgh is Chaotic Neutral, but his player is a good upstanding citizen, the player should still know how to present the character. We don't need to roll to see how "chaotic" the character acts. Likewise, even if the player is a smooth-talker, it's still up to him to roleplay the antisocial character, if that's the character he created.L Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728075457955572017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-34218033858903211552016-07-09T11:12:42.059-04:002016-07-09T11:12:42.059-04:00Leaning and improving my less than stellar Social ...Leaning and improving my less than stellar Social Skills is basically why I got into RPG playing, and especially DMing, to work on. I can attest that I'm not the only one.<br /><br />The only problem I have with this logic is that, even if the player knows what the character is doing, the player might not have the proper way to portray what his character is doing, and in lieu of possibly being misunderstood or even embarrassed on the table he "Trusts in the Heart of the Dice," so to speak.<br /><br />Maybe if the DM would ask for him to be more specific and at the least, lets the player give a ballpark explanation on what is being said in that charismatic speech, maybe the player can better give a better portrayal of the character, which would help if the people sitting in the player doesn't have real-world proficiency in Perform.David Foxfirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08277718683750177191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-29389310795203917702016-07-09T09:05:55.801-04:002016-07-09T09:05:55.801-04:00Chess is a poor analogy because in chess one does ...Chess is a poor analogy because in chess one does not assume a role that may have attributes and abilities different from one's own. One plays chess as oneself. <br /><br />Thomas's point about the character with a 4 in Charisma should also be addressed. <br /><br />Perhaps a set of character stats like those in Boot Hill, where there are none for Intelligence and Charisma, works better, as it then depends wholly on the player's ability and interpretation of his character rather than scores and dice rolls. Doc Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08783244633195233970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2600947515654238699.post-42160433643921904992016-07-09T05:59:34.694-04:002016-07-09T05:59:34.694-04:00Depends on the kind of campaign you're running...Depends on the kind of campaign you're running I would say. <br />It would make no sense for, let's say, Amber rpg to have a system allowing you detect lies or to counter the machinations of other players on the roll of a dice.<br />On the other hand, in some games it would be a good idea to roll for social interaction. It makes no sense for Urgh the antisocial Barbarian with 4 CHA to be a smooth talker just because his player is.Kyorouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03039756343930755030noreply@blogger.com