Because others have asked, and I've already expressed this idea before. If you want a positive definition of the OSR, and what it's all about, here it is:
I would classify the OSR as a design philosophy of creating systems, settings and adventures that fit within the boundaries of old-school mechanics and concepts; that is, either directly utilizing features that were in existence in the period before the advent of 2nd edition AD&D; or features that, in spite of not having historically existed at that time, could have existed in that period without the addition of material or design concepts that are clearly the product of subsequent ideas or later theories.
That's it. That's what OSR design is.
RPGPundit
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So, I can make an OSR game that uses point-based character creation (Champions '81), complex personality mechanics (Pendragon '85), plus narrative devices and other metagame resources (James Bond '83).
ReplyDeleteWith point-based character creation and personality mechanics, yes, you could make a game with these that would still be old-school, as long as they were mechanics based on the same design concepts and style of how those mechanics worked BACK THEN. If you do storygame-style personality mechanics, it won't be OSR. But a Pendragon or Stormbringer style alignment system? Yeah.
DeleteAs for James Bond, its an absurd outlier that only the Forge Storygame Swine-types keep trying to drag out (along with a couple of other totally peripheral games) as if that proves something about the mainstream.
Again, "what we like" trumps actual calendar age or system. When a sufficiently old game inconveniently was ahead of its time, it doesn't count.
DeleteThe OSR community is an expression of pure democracy. What OSR means is subjective to the individual. What OSR design really is is determined through Darwinist capitalism. If you, as a designer, feel strongly enough to design a point buy, story telling game, with extensive mechanics for social interaction. Go ahead and invest your time, sweat, and capital to write and market the thing. If the OSR community refuses to buy or play it, guess what? It ain't Old School. Either listen to what your market demographic wants and accept it or move on to a new demographic because coming up with your own definition of OSR through pseudo-intellectual bs isn't working and will only garner the ire of the customer base.
ReplyDeleteRight. The OP definition is BS. The real definition is "what I like" as stated by an OSR fanatic.
DeleteIt's funny how all religions devolve over time and membership loss into increasingly dogmatic positions.
Nonsense. If the 'market community' of the OSR consistently and repeatedly accepts certain games and rejects others, then you CAN make a definition of what an OSR game would be.
DeleteAlso, a guy named Ron talking about "pseudo-intellectual bs"? How rich.
Who gets to define the 'market community' of OSR? Isn't it self identifying and self referential at the same time?
DeleteLook, I know that your Dear Leader has come out of the exile of his utter failure to try to declare that the OSR is nothing more than a 'marketing tool', but that's pretty well bullshit. The OSR has a stronger conceptual community (of fans of old-school play and old-edition D&D) than even the Forge ever had (back when they were inventing the OSR, if dear leader's bullshit were to be believed).
DeleteThe proof of that is just how much effort it took to break out from the Clonemania mold and expand the OSR concept; and what it required was convincing old-schoolers that you can make new games that are entirely within the old-school mold.
This is why, no matter how much you try to have it otherwise, you're narrative storygames that are meant to 'address the narrative theme' of a group of people playing D&D will never ever be accepted as OSR.
I was actually referring to the other Ron. If he wants to define it as a market demographic I'm only pointing out that in doing so he defeats his own argument. Personally, I don't play any system more advance than 1e.
ReplyDeleteQuit trying to grab glory for yourself by being the guy "defining OSR". You're like a broken record with this stuff man.
ReplyDeleteI'm already up to my neck in "glory". Only the stupid or previously-envious think that's what this is about.
DeleteThat isn't glory you're neck-deep in.
ReplyDeleteLOL. A quick retort, but I'd say that just now I'm very much in my prime. Sorry if that bothers you.
DeleteI always thought of the OSR as just another way to enjoy games. The main point to me has been the nostalgia, sometimes misplaced, for the simpler rules and faster arbitration.
ReplyDelete