So, fellow conservatives: I'm curious to see if some of you think this is not right.
The United States has a huge problem with illegal immigration. It is being facilitated by complicit elements in the government. But the government isn't really the cause of the illegal immigration. Economics is. The illegal arrive in the US to get jobs that are utterly awful but better than what they could hope to get in that failed narco-state we call Mexico.
So if you, like me, support the arrest and deportation of illegals, who are acting completely in violation of rule of law and the established processes for immigration, then you will agree with me that one way to fight this problem is also to go after the people paying these illegals.
The people hiring illegal immigrants are violating the law. Probably multiple laws. They're certainly evading various regulations and taxes that other businesses have to follow. They're avoiding the minimum wage everyone else is bound by. Whether or not you think any of those things I've just named are good (and I don't, particularly), you have to agree that they are at this time established Law, and that it's wrong for some people get circumvent it. Particularly by the hiring of illegals.
So, I'm totally for a much more aggressive rounding up and deporting of illegals. But I think that if you want to actually cause a long-term change (other than actually building the wall), arrest the farmers, construction companies, business-owners, and wealthy California liberals who hire illegals for all those shit jobs at shit pay.
Do some undercover operations. Make it too dangerous for them to risk it. Oblige them to hire Americans, at proper wages.
Because when you think about it, the illegals frankly owe the United States nothing; they're criminals but they are just trying to seek out advantage of a foreign country they owe no allegiance to. But the people who hire them, they're traitors.
RPGPundit
Currently Smoking: Lorenzetti Solitario Egg + Gawith's Navy Flake
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ReplyDeleteI agree and I have been saying this for awhile now.
ReplyDeleteWhat the government needs to do is make businesses verify that everyone they hire is legal and make sure they aren't using fake ID's. Give them 60 or 90 days to comply and if they still have illegals employed fine them $100,000 per illegal employed.
Jobs will dry up for illegals as no business will hire them and risk being put out of business by fines.
The illegals here will self-deport themselves and jobs will open up.
Then with those jobs open you kick the deadbeats on welfare who say "why should I get a job? I get welfare" off and make them take those jobs and no matter what happens don't let them back on.
If a person cannot legally work that is one things, but kick the deadbeats who are too lazy off and make them work these newly opened jobs
and then without welfare wages are driven down and zero hours contracts become slavery. But hey work them into the ground and buy a new one.
DeleteMe? I prefer freedom and not lazy thinking.
@Structured Answer What in the hell are you talking about. I am talking about getting rid of illegals and limiting the number of people on Welfare, shrinking the amount of tax money wasted on lazy people on welfare.
DeleteNot sure how it's lazy thinking
Structured Answer never heard of the minimum wage and various labor laws.
Delete@Matt Celis: So he is a troll and I should ignore him. Thank you
DeleteCouldn't agree more. Let's see real penalties enforced for hiring illegals using cash, and real implementation and enforcement of the E-Verify system.
ReplyDeleteBut in conjunction with that, let's see a reinstatement of a practical guest worker program, so that the people who come here to pick the crops in the summer can do so and then go home legally, rather than staying because they're here illegally anyway.
Although, to play Loki's Advocate, I think there might be a flaw in the premise. If the same principle is applied to, say, bank robbery, does that mean I have to be opposed to the "demand" in that case as well? (The concentration of money in one place.)
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure that opposing criminality necessitates opposing the demand which creates that criminality. Sometimes, it's a function of society.
I don't think the analogy is a fair one.
DeleteLet's look at this instead. Say The Kingpin hires a trio of goons to rob a museum. Should we arrest the trio of Goons, and not the the guy who's PAYING THEM MONEY to commit an illegal act?
There are laws that require employers to verify that their employees are US citizens or legal residents. I know that I have had to prove that I am a US citizen every time I've gotten a job. Clearly those laws are not being regularly enforced.
DeleteIt is far cheaper to high illegal aliens at wages under minimum wage and without paying all of the associated taxes. I haven't done a cost/risk assessment on the matter, but I suspect that it is still cheaper if one factors in being caught and paying legal costs and fees on a regular basis.
I am not happy about the idea of increasing penalties for employers who hire workers--citizens or not--without cutting the State in on the deal. But on the other hand, I don't see the State being willing to reduce their mordita on legitimate employment.
So I don't see an easy fix. I do agree that trying to fight illegal residency without addressing the issue of those who profit from it is not an effective strategy.
Yeah, Pundit's analogy works and Bloch's is a non sequitur.
DeleteUnfortunately this will never happen. I don't want to pay more than a dollar for a dozen eggs.
ReplyDeleteCommon moronic devolution and avoidance of the argument and economics. Classic.
DeleteWhat? I like cheap goods, illegal immigration helps that. Why would anyone abolish a system that keeps prices low?
DeleteThere is another source of demand for illegals we need to shut down: Democrat political machines packing their rolls with illegal voters. California has pretty much legalized having illegal immigrants vote, and the Dems are trying various legal maneuvers to enact the same in other states. When that happens, welcome to North Venezuela.
ReplyDeleteFor good or bad the USA has minimum wage laws. People hire illegals is to avoid those laws. We should either rethink the laws, or hammer the employers avoiding the law. The illegal problem will mostly sort itself out afterwards.
ReplyDeleteThe other issue is illegals that commit crimes. If they commit crimes they should be tried in the USA, and if convicted in the USA should serve time in the USA (with a bill sent to Mexico or taken out of remittances). After they've served they should be deported. Currently they are deported first and released by the Mexican government so that we get repeat offenders.
The issues really aren't that difficult, but both parties aren't really interested in solving the problem (until Trump showed up and made it clear a large number of Americans would like something done).
Minimum wage laws and illegal immigration don't intersect in the way you seem to believe they do.
Delete"...you will agree with me that one way to fight this problem is also to go after the people paying these illegals."
ReplyDeleteYes, but I'm not a conservative; I just believe in law and order.
If politicians do that (go after those who hire illegal aliens), that's probably around 5% of the Republican party. Enough to ensure that Democrats will turn the tide come election day.
ReplyDeleteYou realize that an enormous number of people who hire illegals are California Democrats, right?
DeleteThen there's all the New York and Beltway liberals with their illegal foreign nannies.
DeleteAlmost the entire team of framers currently building our new house are Mexican. My neighbor can't find workers who will show up to his fast food restaurant. Without illegal immigrants, this country is doomed.
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