Will be based on this:
Yes, the adventure on the D&D Starter set will be based on the classic Night's Dark Terror, one of the great old-school sandbox adventures. I think that clears me to say that not only does the Starter set adventure contain several dungeons but it also contains a mini-sandbox setting for classic old-school play.
Seriously, between this and the fact that the BASIC rules, which will be the purest, most distilled, least character-op-laden version of (official) D&D produced in at least 20 years, will be inspired directly by the Rules Cyclopedia, what the fuck more can you possibly want if you're an old-school gamer?
Seriously, at this point if you still feel that the new D&D isn't doing enough for old-school gamers, then you just have to admit you were determined from the very start, consciously or unconsciously, to hate it, and nothing would ever have convinced you otherwise. Because if this doesn't, nothing will, nor could have.
RPGPundit
Currently Smoking: Lorenzetti Solitario Rhosdesian + C&D's Pirate Kake
Hmm...I guess it depends on A) what one defines as "old school", and B) whether you think these bones being thrown get to the heart of what "old school gamers" want.
ReplyDeleteI'm certainly in the "predisposed to hate" category of folks, but I was also willing to read and review with curiosity/interest the things WotC was doing with 5E. I'm not sure I wanted or needed the 5E D&D to "do" anything "for" me (as an old gamer), but throwing me some stylistic nostalgia and using a module from 1986 (after Gygax's departure from TSR and long after the beginning of the brand's decline) really isn't enough to make me do cartwheels.
Hell, I don't even feel that inspired by the Rules Cyclopedia as an edition of D&D, though I *do* recognize it as a fine compilation and worthy addition to the many versions of D&D (I just find more "meat" for old school creativity and imaginative exploration in earlier iterations). If I do purchase a copy of 5E, I intend to likewise judge it as its own unique animal...which may or may not be satisfying for my "old school" sensibilities.
I need to see what I think after I get hold of the free basic pdf. And figure out where in my campain area this new system will fit.
ReplyDeleteWhile Night's Dark Terror is indeed awesome, you could easily convert it to the most railroady adventure ever ... save the village, track the orcs, find the town, enter the valley, etc. Plus this isn't the first time an old adventure was converted to a new game system. Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil didn't make 3e into an old school game.
ReplyDeleteHaters are still gonna hate, no doubt about that. Still, it certainly seems from where I sit, that WoTC is making every reasonable effort to produce something that will be acceptable to the broadest range of players, new and old, that they can. At the end of the day, it's a new edition and no one who is a die-hard fan of ANY old edition is going to be entirely happy with it. But we can certainly hope that it's close enough to be be fun and flexible enough that anyone can tweak what they don't like to make it better for them. If the current supported edition of D&D is something that I can enjoy playing and/or running - and it looks right now that it will be - I'll be a happy man.
ReplyDeleteJB: Seriously, at this point, what DO "old-school gamers want", then? Or more aptly, what do the tiny percentage of old-schoolers still hell-bent on being against 5e want? What could actually be done to change anyone's mind that a basic system, four classes, 20 levels, all free, based on the RC, with a 5-level adventure campaign based on an old-school adventure, could not already do?
ReplyDeleteI mean shit, do you want descending AC?
Do you want East and West Jerusalem alike?
When are you just going to man up and admit that nothing could possibly satisfy you short of Wizards of the Coast being driven into the sea forever, and the arrival of a Madhi of Gary Gygax's true blood (peace be upon him) being declared ruler of the whole of gaming so that all the unbelievers are slain and only those who follow the very-early White Box purity of faith will be raised up and given 72 virgins (ironically, "72 virgins" being also an apt description for the membership of the OSR-taliban themselves...)?
I just want the basic edition now. All this talk is getting me hype up.
ReplyDeleteI get what you mean, trust me!
ReplyDeleteI am excited about this. I don't care if it is old school, new school, middle school or preschool. I will buy it and try it out. But I also play Basic D&D, AD&D1, Pathfinder and 4e with equal joy.
ReplyDeleteWill I play it? Well my plate is pretty full now so I have no idea.
Well I'm certainly not demanding that everyone switch to the new D&D forever or something like that. I very seriously doubt that the release of D&D will lead me to cancel my own ongoing LotFP or DCC campaigns.
ReplyDeleteone of my problems in my campaign is that I'm still using zero level humans from first editions . and have to figure how to fit them into the systems I put in the campaign.
ReplyDeleteActually, 0-level humans should be really easy to integrate into a 5th edition campaign. PC classes have fairly high starting hit points in the most recent play test packets. A 0-level human could start with 4 or 6 hp (depending upon how frail you wish them to be). They get no proficiency bonus for combat. They could still get a proficiency bonus for skills if you'd like.
DeleteMy predictions about what people are going to be doing with D&D Basic are ALREADY coming to pass!
DeleteI think I'll just wait and see what the basic rules have in store before I form an opinion.
ReplyDeleteI am surprized that such an educated and intelligent population as RPGamers have rushed to opinions on what is essentially an empirical question before the 'data' upon which to form that opinion exists.
I didn't like the playtest packets because they were too complicated for me, but the basics looked pretty solid so I'll give Wizards the benefit of the doubt and reserve forming an opinion until I have seen it.
Really, who cares. Take what you want and leave what you don't. Don't want 5e, sweet, don't buy it. Want it, I ain't gonna stop you buying it no matter what I think of it. Is Wizards cashing in? Of course they are, as a business that is what they do.
Too complicated? Seriously? All Basic D&D will do different from the play test is remove Feats, essentially. Basic D&D will include backgrounds (traits) and skills... but even with Feats... too complicated?
DeleteReally?
"such an educated and intelligent population as RPGamers"
ReplyDeleteYou must have better luck than I. My experience is quite different. Sure, they believe themselves to be educated and intelligent...but their acts and words show they're lucky if half of that is true.
Take heart.
DeleteIt's really a spectrum... Just like politics and religion, there are fringes in any large community, and the fringes are usually the vocal (or weird) ones who make the rest of that community roll their eyes.
Sadly, there's quite a bit of that with Matt; luckily, there's also about half of gamers who are pretty good.
ReplyDelete