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Thursday 12 January 2017
A response to G+ Censors
Recently, a certain G+ RPG group (I'm not going to say which, but suffice it to say one of the big ones) sent me a message letting me know that they'd erased my post there of my review of Venger Satanis' "Girls Gone Rogue".
The lead moderator there, who is a storygamer celebrity with a history of having reason to dislike me, informed me that the act of censorship was not, in fact, because of anything to do with Venger's work. But rather, with the text of my review blurb, where I said: "I could also really understand how even women on this side of the insanity spectrum from Tracey Hurley would still find some of this material offensive."
Their problem, apparently was that (according to them) I put into question Tracey Hurley's mental health.
The moderators claimed that they "will not allow personal attacks on any game designer rather(sic) it be Venger Satanis or Tracy Hurley or whomever".
He also, incredibly, said "we cannot have that neutrality if we do not moderate".
So here's my response to this asshole:
Well, that's ironic. On several levels.
I concede that people could justifiably have reasons to feel offended by this product on the grounds of misogyny, and that ends up being the post that does me in.
I nevertheless assert the author's right to be criticized but not silenced, only to have the post silenced.
Anyways, I'll take your claims of neutrality at your word. Of course, I believe in free speech, and you don't seem to. But it is your ballgame. I just hope to see your claims of neutrality hold up the next time Hurley or someone else from the Ctrl-Left Outrage Brigade post something about how D&D players are Toxic White Male Terrorists or some OSR writer is an aberration that must be expunged from the hobby and have his books wiped from human memory in the name of social justice.
I really didn't feel I was 'attacking' Tracey Hurley, or Venger Satanis for that matter (of course, I'd bet my right testicle, which happens to be my favorite one, that if I just insulted Venger Satanis then not one fuck would have been given by any of you).
Regardless, I was just being factual, in both cases. Tracy Hurley believes a fully-dressed classic D&D image of a beloved and heroic female cleric is proof of Rape Culture. I wasn't meaning to question the sanity of her mental health per se, I'm not a psychologist. I was questioning the "sanity" only of her claims, of her ideas. And contextually, I was saying that even people who do not believe such an insane set of ideas could still find Venger's book offensive in its treatment of women.
But well, lesson learned. Some ideas are not to be questioned here.
Also "we cannot have neutrality if we do not moderate" is an insane oxymoron.
See what I did there?
I'm not trying to start some kind of Jihad, just share my response because we need regular reminders of the way censors think, in our hobby.
Also, I'm sparing these assholes because they have not banned me yet. You can believe me the next time I see a post on their group about "D&D gamers are white male terrorists", I'll be calling them on it, and letting all of you know. But for now, they're at least trying to maintain a pretense of 'neutrality'.
Not like the groups that piece of shit "Claytonian JP" runs. He co-opted the largest groups for two of the most popular OSR games: Lamentations of the Flame Princess and DCC. And he has banned me from both of them for no reason other than not liking me.
He has done this and continues to do this against the explicitly-stated desires of Goodman Games, who own DCC, but he doesn't seem to care, even though he's stolen control of their presence on G+.
I have no idea what James Raggi feels about it, but maybe some people might want to ask what he feels about the owner of the biggest LotFP G+ group playing god with who he allows to post there or not based on nothing other than petty personal vendettas?
So yeah, feel free to go let people know what you think of Claytonian there.
RPGPundit
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Neutrality can be congruent with moderator action. We expect sports referees to be neutral, but that involves slapping down either team when necessary, not maintaining a completely hands-off stance.
ReplyDeleteNeutrality is the very reason we do not moderate. Because each of us has inherent biases. I have inherent biases. If I moderated for speech content on theRPGsite, I would not trust my own ability to be more harsh with content from games I don't like or people whose politics I don't like than from those who are friendly to me.
DeleteSo because I do not think that highly of myself, I do not moderate based on content.
I strongly doubt a group being supervised by one of the leading figures of the Storygames movement can actually Moderate for content in such a way to do anything even resembling actual "neutrality".
But you do moderate for content. I was banned from theRPGsite for content.
DeleteI don't even know who you were on theRPGsite, but I'm absolutely sure it wasn't content that got you banned. Because no one has ever been banned for (rpg-related) content.
DeleteFrom the bit you quoted, you do seem to have inserted a completely gratuitous swipe at Tracy Hurley into the review. I get what you are saying, but even rewording the sentence to cite her as an example of an extreme position rather than insanity would have been less of an attack.
ReplyDeleteIt's not gratuitous. She thinks Aleena The Cleric is an example of rape culture. I'm not talking about her personal psychology because I'm not a psychologist. But HER VIEWS are literally insane.
DeleteI'm sorry to hear that. By the way, why not mention the group?
ReplyDeleteBecause I'd rather direct people's ire to Claytonian and his groups, where he's not only banned me outright (unlike this other RPG group which only censored one of my reviews), he's also done so in defiance of the wishes of the company that actually owns at least one of the two RPGs he has groups where he banned me for.
DeleteWe'll see if James Raggi also feels as strongly as he claims to and would make it two IP-owners Claytonian is openly defying while using their product to his own benefit.
The OSR G+ group eagerly awaits your review.
ReplyDeletehttps://plus.google.com/communities/118190724629075727878
Oh, I've been a member there for a long time now. It's great, top notch and would recommend it to anyone!
DeleteNo, Pundit, you were banned for several reasons:
ReplyDelete1) spamming Albion (didn't catch you for a long while as I merely had you muted)
2) never actually interacting with either community via comments, etc. (just posting stuff there in hopes of getting hits)
3) it's hard to moderate people I've blocked. Not worth it.
BTW both communities are pointed out to be fan communities in their descriptions, and I take pride in the fact that the companies don't get to influence how we talk about their products. Would you say that someone who started a D&D community co-opted WotC's rightful domain? If you want to, start your own community.
You're a fucking thief trying to gain influence and petty power against the wishes of the IP holders.
DeleteMy Albion campaign WAS an LotFP campaign.
My DCC campaign breakdowns are immensely popular, and will likely become a DCC book at some point. I guess you'll try to ban that too, won't you, you weasely little cunt?
You're just a fucking parasite. And now everyone knows about it.
I'll second what RPGpundit said about Claytonian JP's moderation duties. I've been banned from both the DCC and LotFP (incidentally, I did start my own DCC g+ community because of his bullshit).
ReplyDeleteAny post that wasn't 100% only devoted to DCC was removed by him, despite the protests of those in that community. It does kind of sicken me a bit that Claytonian is the face of those g+ communities.
As for the feminist mentioned, has she seen the review? Has she commented or complained? Would she be willing to roll on one of my random tables? I'm just curious...
Indeed. Your community: https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/114352113948427124148
Deleteand Goodman Games' official community:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/100033926967813492374
Are the places to go for DCC material without a weasely little shit as a moderator.
Hello! Long time reader, first time caller. I own the two Albion source books and Arrows of Indra. My comment is: why care about the G+ community? This isn't meant to be a jibe directed at you, but more of pointing out greener pastures. Almost none of my 10k monthly hits come from G+, the majority coming from Reddit and Facebook. If the deep seated insecurities of people can't let them appreciate your work, spread it elsewhere.
DeleteKeep making your awesome gaming stuff, and quit casting pearls before swine. They will complain about the taste and damaged teeth, then blame you for not making the slop that others do.
Well, controlling the narrative seems to be Clay's forte these days, as exampled by his response to a satirical, political post of mine:
ReplyDeleteClaytonian JPDec 19, 2016+2
3
2
"Rob, you're a gaming legend and you waste your blog and g+ feed on posts that you culled together from chain-letters our grandmas send us. People will stop following you. What a waste."
Seems to me that he is judge, jury and executioner, or wants to be. I have no issue with neutrality, but they are of no worth when obvious bias exists and confounds the former's meaning and intent. I have no other dog in this fight, other than the fact that many of my past products are being considered as DCC editions as well and with all that that entails, future-wise, for reviews. I wonder, if I cannot even post my own opinions on my own site without a negative and sidelong attack, then what might become of any future reviews of my works, then, through that same biased focus?
In the interest of full disclosure, her is the post that I quoted from, and as mirrored online at G+: http://lakegenevaoriginalrpg.blogspot.fr/2016/12/breaking-news.html
I don't see the part where he banned you from something?
DeleteYou posted old uncle political stuff on G+ and he told you he thought it was poopy. What's the problem there exactly?
Also, he's not the only gamer I've heard complain about your political postings. So maybe, I don't know, mull on that for a minute.
I'm not mulling anything, but others are. Note that I didn't take him to task for insulting me personally, so net-neutrality comes to mind, eh? Anyway, my blog is my device. I'll post what I want. People don't have to read it or comment, you included.
DeleteJason, I think Rob's point is that Claytonian took the time and energy to insult him unnecessarily. And he banned RPGpundit and myself. Others have also complained of similar shitty behavior on Claytonian's part. Why defend him?
DeleteDon't worry Rob, I don't read your blog, so you don't have to carry that weight around.
DeleteSeriously though,I'm unsure what him telling you his opinions about your policitcal facebook memes (that you burp out on social media the reg) has to do with net neutrality, but keep on truckin', brother.
Venger- Let's just say, you and I disagree on what constitutes actual censorship.
Then why should people like yourself complain about what I post, and intimate that others do likewise, when you don't even care to read the gaming stuff? Oh. I get it... Never mind junior. *Tips hat to Venger*.
DeletePutting aside your (hilarious) gentlesir hat tip to Venger, I don't understand your point.
DeleteAre people not free to respond to your opinions with opinions of their own? Am I and others obligated to read your gaming content to do so? Again, I don't see how this is related net-neutrality or censorship in the least.
You don't have to put aside my hat tip; it wasn't made by you or meant for you. I'll go slowly for you, and if you can't get it, then I suggest you retake Troll 101:
Delete1) You don't read my blog
2) You make negative assertions about one post as well as speak for "others" who do so about the 6 total political posts I have made in 3 years time.
3) SUMMARY: You have no dog in this fight but choose to fight otherwise.
4) I am not talking about others' opinions, you are, and from a point where you understand very little as you don't care to read my blog and thus understand my thoughts. Logically, and as I have noted, you have no position in this fight. You are being purposely negative and by choice. Now run along Junior.
Okay Rob, in order:
Delete1)This is correct. From what I've read briefly today, I would say this is the right decision.
2.)On your blog maybe. But your G+ feed is full of Breitbart bullshit. The post Claytonian commented on was especially smarmy garbage, by the by, not that you care. The fact that I mentioned others feel the same is also true. People have literally stated this in my presence. My point in mentioning this is to illustrate that this is at least not a rarely held belief.
3.)I have as much of a dog in this fight as you. In that, neither your or I have been banned by him. He just hurt your feelings. This is the only real thing I can think of, as the whole you not wanting to publish a DCC book because of that one interaction doesn't really hold water rationally.
4)Rob, please. Your thoughts are not that hard to grasp. I've gone through your G+ feed there is nothing there so complex and enlightening that I or others cannot comprehend. I'm saying that Claytonian's thoughts on that particular matter are not aberrant and are shared by plenty of others, including myself. But I'm repeating myself see #3 above. Lastly, you keep calling me Junior. Is this supposed to insult me, or somehow invalidate my position? The fact that I'm further removed from death doesn't make my points invalid. Incidentally, I also find Junior a raucous good time as Schwarzenegger films go. In that, you and I are in agreement.
You are such a fucking baby. People choosing what they want to share on communities they maintain has absolutely nothing to do with free speech. You can't play the libertarian card unless you're ready to respect other people's freedom not to want to boost your signal.
ReplyDelete"...to respect other people's freedom not to want to boost your signal."
DeleteWhat does this mean??
Everyone on the 'net is "boosting" their signals. You're doing it now. The Pundit does it all the time, so does Google, etc. It's a human thing. Go to a game convention and guess what? Yep. There too.
It's about sharing content and thoughts. Seems to me that if we cannot communicate except in very sterile and structured ways--then the idea of content becomes limited to a linear patterning... Oh...
@ 'Pundit... It would seem to me that the Thought Police are back in vogue, and now is time for the fourth rendering of the "Swine is Thine."
If I had posted something off-topic to the site, you might have a point, "n.r.". But I didn't. Having my stuff blocked because of personal dislikes or ideological motivations is explicitly censorship.
DeleteYes, Mr. Kuntz, you're quite right in your analysis: the point of all this outrage is because the ctrl-left wants to de-democratize the internet and regain strong centralized control, like they used to have, so they and they alone can define terms and decide the 'narrative' people will be fed.
DeleteThey're so angry they're not in charge anymore.
You know what I think's funny about your whole beef with Tracey Hurley? She was right that Aleena the Cleric was sexualised. It's undeniable - Elmore can't draw a woman that isn't sexualised (don't get me wrong, I have a lot of time for Elmore). If I was writing the Basic Set now, I'd like to think I'd commission different artwork. But I'm not going to feel ashamed of my hobby because of some pretty tame illustrations from the early 80s.
ReplyDeleteOh please. Aleena is a beloved heroic female character who is always depicted completely covered in armor. You never see any skin on her other than her head.
DeleteIt's skin tight, figure hugging armour (and quite a figure from what I remember- oops wasn't she dead at the time?). Hurley blows the whole thing out of proportion (if she actually said 'rape culture' then that's a nasty smear on Elmore and Mentzer) but you can't deny that Aleena was portrayed in a sexualised way...
DeleteWhat if women are actually sexual beings? [Minds blown]
DeleteThey are indeed Venger. I don't see anything massively wrong with how Aleena is portrayed, but it's designed to appeal to young males and if I was commissioning art for a similar book now I would try to have something a bit less 'loaded'. My beef here is just that it's disingenuous of Pundit to claim that Aleena is NOT sexualised when the opposite is manifestly the case.
DeleteYou know what a 2nd wave (ie. real) feminist would have said to you and Tracey Hurley and all the other stupid anti-sex and yet sex-obsessed puritan fucks?
DeleteShe would have said that if you see this:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Mox0FY6pVIE/UGj69x9CG-I/AAAAAAAAAos/hM0yZhUePvA/s1600/Aleena+by+Larry+Elmore.jpg
and think that it's "sexual", then the problem is with YOU, not with Aleena.
Don't think I actually said 'I side with Hurley' or that 'sexualised images of women are always bad', just 'some of the Aleena pics are definitely sexualised' and 'that might not be the best way to introduce young gamers to the hobby'. Hurley was kinda picking a bad fight though, considering the Red Box came out in the early 80s...
DeleteAll of you nerds need to calm down and back away from your thesauruses.
ReplyDeleteHeh!
Delete